Jason had earlier asked me if I would mind posting about why I am choosing to stay away from movies and such containing witch craft and sorcery, etc. I remembered that I had posted a message about this in the main church website back in July of 2004 and I thought I would just cut and paste the whole message here. I have to say that I am very lonely in this whole journey and I struggle with this issue often. I am determined to make the best decision possible every single time concerning the fact that I am not a follower of men but of God. I am not in the habit of trying to get people to like me by what I do or not do. I'm always going to make someone unhappy (unfortunately). If the whole world turns against me, I plan to still serve the Lord to the best of my ability in the way I know to be right according to what I have read in the Bible for myself.
(Please know that I am not using a nasty tone in this post. Though it still may step on toes. I am simply sharing my struggles and decisions openly with my church family and the rest of the world who bothers to read about my heart and follow along as I grow.)
Here is what I posted on the other website:
I have recently made a very tough decision concerning my household. We won't be watching movies, etc. that contain and promote sorcery, witchcraft, fortune telling, magic, etc. This decision was made based on, you guessed it, The Bible. I have known for years what the Bible says about these things but just ignored it because I wanted to do what I wanted to do. I am a big fan of The Lord of the Rings (with sorcery) and Harry Potter (with witchcraft) and I didn't want to stay away from those things because I didn't see any harm in it. Well, I have been watching, reading, and hearing all sorts of people talking about this issue and I can find no reason why it would be good for me and Tim spiritually to continue taking part in this sort of thing for our entertainment. As Christians, we all need to be very aware and very careful of what it is that entertains us. What entertains a person, tells alot about that person....who they are, what they are for and against, etc. I want Tim and I to be known as people who are for the Lord and against what the Lord is against. I have been getting alot of flack about this decision as I'm sure you can imagine. So, the other night, I decided to make this decision "concrete" by looking in the Bible to see exactly what God says about this issue. I used an additional book to guide me called "Where to find it in the Bible". I was amazed at how much scripture was actually dedicated to this sort of thing. I read as many as I possibly could all through the bible from the old testament to the new testament before I fell asleep from tired eyes. I have come to realize by reading everything that I've read, that God doesn't want his children to mess with this stuff in any way, shape or form......(IMAGINE THAT) So, what I am trying to announce to everyone here is that "AS FOR ME AND MY HOUSE, WE WILL SERVE THE LORD"
Sunday, December 18, 2005
Witchcraft for Christians?
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I agree with you on this, Jennifer. As a church, we have always been very adamant about sticking to the book when it specifically says to do or not do something. If the Bible tells me to stay away from witchcraft, then I'm going to stay away from it.
There is a tendency to brush it off as harmless make-belive in today's society, but even though the books and movies may be fictional, there is a fundamental base upon which a lot of it is built upon. We are told to avoid all appearances of evil. Reading books and watching movies about evil appears to me to be in complete rebellion to that command.
Patsy and I would not let our kids even watch the Disney flick "Bedknobs and Broomsticks" when they were growing up. Andy had major "He-Man" withdrawal when we made him stop watching that cartoon after we realized what it was expousing. Throw "Bewitched" and "I Dream Of Jeannie" into the list of banned media also. I know they were considered "harmless" comedys...but they did contain witchcraft, casting spells, etc. If you make an exception to the small stuff, pretty soon you're saying "well this one isn't much worse..." and before you know it, anything goes.
As a teacher Patsy always dreaded the Halloween season and tried to avoid decorating her classroom with anything glorifying the "dark side." Pumpkins and scarecrows were about as close as she would venture in her decorations.
You don't need to apologise for your opinion, it's based solidly on the truth of God's Word.
I appreciate the post, Jen, and the comment, Al. I must say that I think of the movie and shows mentioned above as rather benign (no disrespect intended).
I did catch on to an inconsistency in my thinking. While I was thinking, "Man, these guys need to take a chill pill," I remembered something. When I set up my Blogger Profile, I felt compelled to go back and edit out my birthdate. I did so to get rid of the Zodiac references. Why? I associated zodiac references with astrology, I never did care for astrology, so I by-passed it all by deleting my birthdate.
Now, I see that as sort of a left-field reaction on my part. One that I don't think many others would share; nevertheless, it was an honest reaction.
Having remembered that event, it would seem slightly hypocritical to poke too hard at your convictions. It is interesting how we as Christians are triggered by different aspects of our culture. The tension between Christianity and culture has always been. It was paramount in the 2nd and 3rd centuries. There were really two schools of thought, one that sought to see commonalities between Christ and culture, and one that sought to maintain a divide between the two. Threads of that divide lie at the heart of the split between the Roman Catholic and the Eastern Orthodox Churches.
OK, it's getting late, I'm starting to go places no one wants to follow. Let's hear from some others...
Jason, I deleted my birthdate for the exact same reason. That zodiac thing bothered me too.
I'm still thinking about this..
Would you agree with me, that the application of many religious convictions are arbitrary (i.e. without a clear set of guiding principles)?
It's easier to spot, if you focus on somebody else. For instance, I used to work with an apostolic christain young man who wore long sleeves to work everyday. He did so according to religious conviction (I assume regarding modesty in dress). Now, he rolled his sleeves up past his elbow, but always had long sleeves. I now work with a minister who has no qualms with instrumental music in worship, but is adamant about no drums. He has admitted that his position is arbitrary, but defends it stating, "I gotta draw the line somewhere."
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying these guys are hypocrites. I'm suggesting that we all do that in one aspect or another.
What do you think?
I think that's pretty obvious, given how many different denominations that have split off in so many directions. Some of the differences are so small it borders on silly, but they don't see it like that; it's a big issue with them.
I know there are a lot of things that we focus on that are petty to people looking in from outside our fellowship as well as things we don't do that horrify them as well.
I think a perfect example of this is our stance on instrumental music. It puts us at odds with hundreds of congregations who feel that a beautiful organ adds majesty to their worship services. We smile and nod, yep it sure sounds pretty but that ain't in the Bible. They come right back at us and remark that neither are microphones and multimedia projectors.
As much as we try to be all things to all people, in situations like this it's impossible since many of the idiosyncracys are diametrically opposed to each other.
If we get too caught up in this kind of thing, we become no better than the Pharisees who concentrated on the structure of the law rather than it's spirit...been there, done that, got a new covenant.
Yet, if the Bible clearly states something, shouldn't we do it? Sort of a rock and a hard place situation there which I really don't know what the answer to is. If we try to cross every "T" and dot every "I" we become no better than the Pharisees; yet if we don't do what we know we were instructed to do, we are ignoring God's Word.
It is truly a puzzling dilemma and I can certainly appreciate why there are so many divisions of what started out as a single body of belivers.
Good thoughts, Al. Shifting back to the theme of Christ and culture, the blog, "In His Big Grip" has an interesting discussion about the Christian tendency to withdraw from culture. If you read it, be sure to read the comments.
http://johnalanturner.blogspot.com/2005/12/withdrawal-is-withdrawal.html
Unrelated to the present discussion but very interesting:
http://contratimes.blogspot.com/2005/12/reason-3-lazy-faire.html
I remember several years ago preparing a lesson for a group of teenagers on 1 Samuel 28. After spending time in my office preparing for that lesson I made a decision. I remember going home and announcing to my two young sons that they would no longer be able to watch their favorite show on Friday nights. It was Sabrina the Teenage Witch. Of course the question from them was, "Why?" I was trying to explain it them when my younger son (then about four years old) said, "Dad, you know it's just pretend!" After fighting the urge to laugh, I responded, "Yes, you are right. But, it is pretending that some one or something other than God has the power and ability to give us the things we really need." We have since avoided shows and movies that deal with witches, sorcery, and/or evil spirits. With that said that was a family decision that has worked for us and I understand that some families see these things as harmless entertainment.
There is something I would encourage families consider as they think about and talk about this form of entertainment. Do these shows or movies do anything to desensitize me to the evil of witchcraft or sorcery? For me, I was concerned that if the only exposure my children had to witchcraft at a young age was Sabrina, how they would handle being exposed to actual witchcraft later in life. Shows like Bewitched, Sabrina, and Charmed work hard to make witches attractive and lovable characters that seems to help make things like witchcraft and Wicca more acceptable in our society.
As a question of whether we should "withdraw" from society, aren't we called to be a "holy people?" If I understand the word "holy" properly, it means we should be different or set apart from the world.
I'm sure that there are other areas of society that I've not considered in relation to scriptural commands. There are probably things that I do without thinking that sends other folks into spasms of guilt. But this (witchcraft as entertainment) is one area of today's society that I do recognize as potentially evil and will quietly continue to withdraw from. It's not a big issue with me and I won't condemn folks that consider it benign and not worth worrying about (I can understand their point of view)...it's just one of those little things that defines who I am as a Christian, something I do while trying to be "holy" in the sense of being set apart. Not righteous or special or perfect...just different.
Ya know, I just had an epiphany...we all have our blind spots, for example I have stated my aversion to this stuff when presented blatantly as "witchcraft" such as in Bewitched, Charmed, Sabrina, etc.; yet if I see a show with a stage magician pulling rabbits out of a hat or vanishing tigers...it doesn't bother me. I'm not really sure why because the two sort of go hand in hand. Hmmm...I'll have to give this some further thought.
“As holy people whom God has chosen and loved, be sympathetic, kind, humble, gentle, and patient.” Colossians 3:12
Keith, thanks for your input, your welcome anytime.
Al, I went to some program sponsered by SOMC that featured a magician. I enjoyed the show, spent most of my time trying to figure out the illusion.
The next day an employee asked my opinion about the show. Naively, I blurted out something positive. Of course, the employee was a religious man who felt the show was despicable due to its embracing of the "black arts". He was considering making a statement to the administration and "had" wondered if I would be supportive.
I felt emotionally torn. On one hand, I didn't want to dash sincere conviction; on the other, I genuinely felt the guy needed a chill pill (I'm liking that 'chill pill' expression).
Anyway, don't take me wrong. I'm not writing this to be persuasive. I think this is an interesting discussion. I appreciate all that has been written.
I think there is a difference between fantasy and reality and it takes some common since to distinguish between the two.
Casper was a friendly ghost being chased by the bad ghost. Wile E Coyote couldn't really build those bridges and bombs to catch the Roadrunner. I mean, how far do you take this?
I don't really believe that Bill Murruy has the power to capture ghost in a vacuum cleaner type devise, but the powers portrayed by the priest in the Exorcist is a different matter.
What about an angel getting his wings in It's a Wonderful Life? or the spirit of Christmas past? We can't read Charles Dickens? The Wizard of Oz? Willy Wonka? (I never liked Willy Wonka anyway)
Gasp! Wile E. Coyote was a witch?!?!? Of course! That explains how he was able to suspend the laws of physics and survive all of those falls off of that cliff! How blind I have been!
Oh...and Willy Wonka just gives me the willies too...
Jennifer, you started this whole thing...why haven't we seen any comments from you? Get in here and start blogging, girl!
Common sense and religion... can the two unite?
I actually have a book entitled, "Common Sense: A New Approach to Understanding Scripture" by David W. Bercot. He's a title lawyer and he suggest interpreting Scripture by studying its "course of performance" (e.i. study the Ante-Nicene Fathers for 2nd & 3rd Century application of Apostolic teachings).
Anyhow, What do they say? "Common sense ain't so common." I've often been accused of lacking it.
I really have nothing to say that I havn't already said in my original post. That's why I havn't commented until now.
I have thought an considered this topic for a very long time, Jennifer and I often have discussions about what movies to see whether or not witchcraft or sorcery in a movie is wrong or if it is just part of the story, (we do often disagree on the matter). I have researched throughout the bible, prayed and this happens to be my thoughts on the matter: Any movie or television show that glorifies witchcraft or shows it in a positive light should be avoided, this also goes for murder, adultery, etc... Sin is sin anything that makes sin seem good should be avoided, Now what are the movies or shows that glorify sin, that is your decision to make, but please pray and ask God to show you the correct path to take and consider the consequences of your decision.
I'm sure Mark Wood isn't a witch, but you know... his wife always struck me a bit strange. And that little boy, he's always so good... too good.
Seriously, I think if we could arrive at a principle here, Tim has probably articulated it best. The glorification of sin cannot be good for us in any format.
Great comments and thoughts. Al, I really enjoyed your scripture, along with Tim's thoughts put this topic in the right perspective.
This is a tough subject for me, I enjoy movies alot. I am that annoying guy who can quote movies, because he stays up till 2:00 in the morning to watch a movie he has seen ten times. I do enjoy all types and some include fantasy that includes special powers, ie. the force or Gandolf the Grey. But I honestly can say that I saw these movies as good versus bad, the hero wins and the guy with the white hat gets the girl. I agree with Tim that movies that glorify whitchcraft are harmful, but one could argue that these movies I have quoted do that. I do not know. I know I can seperate the difference, but I wonder about my girls, how would they process this. I am trying to figure this out, if I wouldn't want my girls watching something, should I watch it. Again a tough question.
But then I wonder about fairy tells, Christmas stories and even Dora the Explorer. My girls love them, but there are witches and magic scattered through-out. The evil witch in the mirror, tonight in "Santa Claus is coming to Town" there was a winter warlock. I am still confused....
Prayer is my only solution.
Hey guys don't pick on Deanna and Clay Wood. I like them and their glasses.
Aaron,
Have you ever given them a major discount on an eye exam, only later to wonder why you did that???
So are you saying that all fictional characters (and hippos) are evil? :)
I think "good over evil" stories for the most part are safe for viewing, however nowadays you can't be certain that some twisted Hollywood producer isn't going to turn your favorite fairy tale into a chainsaw massacre, case in point - the recent "Grimm Brothers" movie.
The initial direction of this thread was the glorification of witchcraft in entertainment. I still feel that is something to be avoided. No matter how sweet and cuddly the witches are portrayed, it's still sugar coating something intrinsically evil.
Of course I'm basing my opinion on Galatians 5:19-20 (I'm surprised nobody has quoted it yet) where Paul mentions witchcraft in a long list of other sinful things. But...notice that preceeding the list he says that acts of a sinful nature should be obvious to someone who is living in the Spirit. I take that to mean we need to use our common sense, guided by the Holy Spirit, to decide on questionable things. If you think it's benign, and you are truly living by the Spirit, then it's probably safe to watch.
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