Due to my participation in a recent conversation, one that I was blessed to be apart, and one that did not directly address the subject I am raising, I acquired a hint of insight into one of Sunshine's subsystems. For a large family system like the Sunshine Church of Christ to function at full capacity subsystems within the larger unit must also be functional and healthy. Subsystems need to have some measure of autonomy (life of their own), yet must contribute productively to the whole (the larger system).
For example, obvious subsystems within Sunshine would be 1) Elders, 2) Deacons, and 3) Ministers. Signs of system health would be that each of these groups are capable of functioning independently (not dependent on outside support to survive) and can relate to the other groups in a manner that serves the whole.
However, there are other groups within Sunshine that are important. One, such, important group is the fellowship of women. Women perform critical roles in the on-going functioning of our congregation. Due to our emphasis on male leadership, we tend to inadvertently devalue the leadership capabilities of the ladies. Throughout the years, there have been various efforts to build fellowship among Sunshine's ladies, as well as efforts to reach out to ladies of other congregations. Currently, there are various formal programs (e.g. Secret Sisters) and informal get-togethers (e.g. Scrap-booking parties) that take place.
Being male, I'm somewhat handicapped in my ability to discuss this subject. I am interested in what you think. Should we strive to develop more opportunities for ladies to experience fellowship together? Are we too focused on the development of male leadership that we do a disservice to our ladies?
I am not trying to initiate a debate about women's roles in the church, I am attempting to focus on more pragmatic concerns such as fellowship and spiritual development.
What do you think?
Tuesday, February 21, 2006
Sunshine's untapped subsystem
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11 comments:
Jason, I think that it would be great to get to fellowship more with the ladies at Sunshine. I doubt that I am the only one who feels that way because when Candi started the Women's Connection a few years ago, our first meeting was very well attended. I really had a good time visiting with everyone then and would love to do more things like that. I think it is very important to learn from each others' experiences because the older I get, the more I realize that I DON'T know it all (I know that may shock some of you because it does me!!). The Bible tells us that the older women are to train the younger women... I think we need to have something like the Women's Connection that includes all women of every age so that we can develop loving bonds with one another. It will make it that much easier for us to teach and learn from each other. God gave us our church family for a reason. I would love to find more ways to grow as "sisters"!
Do you think it is difficult for the older and younger women of Sunshine to relate to each other? I ask this because (I think) the generational divide is greater for you, women, than it is for us, men. There have been great changes in society over the past 40 years that deeply impact the manner in which women approach family and career. Word on the street is that women are tough on other women. What do you think?
This is actually Jodi writing. I'm torn on this subject. I feel that there are definite roles for the women-often women don't step up to the plate. For example, I know there is a constant struggle for teachers. Also, I feel confident that if I wanted to try a new area of work, the elders would be supportive. For example, at one point I considered teaching fitness and Dad thought it was a good idea. I am guilty in not pursuing it further. I do feel that the women are supported.
Now, I'm going to stick my neck out on the line. I feel that the women of my peer group are lacking a spiritual connection. We tend to talk about our kids openly, but if the subject changes to a spiritual matter the conversation is often dropped. We talk more about the next social gathering than we do about our prayer needs or lifting each other up. Often, there is a sense of telling each other about "what we have done for God" versus "what God has done for us." Obviously this is a struggle for me, but I do feel that we are to be rewarded in heaven and not on earth.
I'm not trying to be critical of anyone. Maybe I am searching for a role or purpose that hasn't been fulfilled yet. Some first blog, huh?
I think the feeling would probably be mutual if the women of the church all chimed in on this subject. Kim and I have talked about this many times and she also finds herself coming up with tremendous ideas that just never get off of the ground. Typically she is worried about leaving somebody out.
I could not agree more that it would be tremendous for the women of the church to be together praying and sharing time spiritually with one another. There is always positive feelings that come out of their classes that they have and I know we would grow as a church and in our families for them to be doing this. The LORD has blessed us with tremendous women and I know he is grateful for the things that they do, but I am sure he would like to see that grow.
Kim often states she wishes the women would all get together like the men and pray and spend time spiritually together and I wish they would to. The big hurdle is not to get your feelings hurt if it does not fit your schedule, either make time or move the times around to accomodate everyone.
Thats my two cents. By the way Jodi I think your first blog was Great!!! We need your thoughts.
Lisa, why does your name always show up in Black on here?
Jason, I don't think it is hard at all to relate to women that are older or younger than me. I don't think we take advantage of that opportunity much, though. We all seem to cling to our group of friends that are more like us, whether that be due to age, where our kids are, what our interests are, etc. I feel that if we continue to be that way, we are truly missing out on some of the things God intended for us to learn. Most women are able to have very meaningful relationships with their mothers, grandmothers, mothers-in-law, aunts, sisters...and those all span a wide generational divide. There isn't any reason why we would have a problem there. We just need to DO it! Having some activities that include every woman (whether it is a class, an outing or a home group) would be very beneficial to our growth as a family. There probably is some truth to your statement that women are tough on each other. I don't know why that is the case. I do know that from my own experience, the more time I spend with a person, the more I realize they aren't that different from me and have the same struggles that I do. Sometimes I feel like I can learn from them, and sometimes I feel like the teacher. I think that can change the way you feel about people, and it's something that will last. I think it is definitely worth the effort!
By the way, Aaron, my name is always in black because after all, black is slimming!!
I have always gotten along better with people who are 10 years older than me. I don't know why. This is just something interesting that I've discovered over my lifetime. I personally have always hated to be "stuck" with the same group of people all the time. I like branching out and meeting new people of different age groups. I like hanging out with people who are old enough to be my great-grandma and I like hanging out with people in their teen years and I adore being with children. I crave relationship with all ages of people and I tend to seek this out.
In the past, I feel I have injured some friendships because of my interest in hangin' out with "the guys". I find that my personality and interests in various things moves me toward the male gender more often than not. Unfortunately, I have voiced this to some of my friends in the past and it came out of my mouth "I really prefer guys and I really don't like women because all they talk about is babies and breast feeding." This was a mistake on my part to say such a thing in the way I did. So, consider this a formal appology to all women I have said this to. I'm so sorry! I just require more meat in my relationships with women than what our bodies can do. I have found myself realizing that I really don't care much about sports when the guys are talking. I enjoy listening to them talk because they NEVER talk about giving birth, breast feeding, menopause, menstruation, or husbands driving them nuts. The women I use to be around all of the time talked about this stuff constantly and I for one, could not relate to some of that. At the time, I was going through the darkest time in my entire life (not having a child of my own), and I hated being around conversations like all these women were having. I have never had a guy come up to me and ask me private things about my life. Guys just stay to themselves and if you have something to say, then, it's up to you to voice it.
I am the kind of person who needs more interaction with both male and female members of the church. I am spiritually fed by both genders. I feel that I already know (to a point) what a woman thinks and feels because I am one. This is why I tend to gravitate toward the guys. I don't understand them as well because I'm not one. I want to get to know everyone of every age and of every gender. The only difference between me and other women is our perspective on how life has treated us individually. At least this is my take on it.
I have really said alot of stuff on this comment that I have been keeping buried inside of me for years because I was afraid of hurting more friends (or hurting the same ones all over again). This is not my intention (to hurt anyone). I'm just tired of holding in my guilt of having said those things to a special few and never taking the chance to explain myself better.
I just want to know everyone and have conversations with depth and broad varieties of subjects....especially spiritual.
I agree with Aaron and Kim that scheduling can be an issue, but sometimes you just have to go ahead and do something. Yes there will always be someone who can't participate but as long as you try to accommodate and don't make it too difficult, it is better than doing nothing. The difficulty with women is that some work and some don't, for most of us guys we work the similar schedules, there are exceptions but the majority would have the same chances to meet at a certain time. I would just encourage Kim to try to make a time that would be fairly easy for the majority of women. I would hate to see their be a split between those that do and those that do not. As someone who has had to work on Saturdays, I have had to miss out on activities that other men have been able to participate and yes at times I have felt left out, but I have always tried to participate when I can and to not get discouraged. It has always seemed that when one door seems closed another is opened. Long story short, if you have good ideas and others seem willing then go with it.
Jennifer, I appreciate your honesty. I am sorry that you have had to endure difficult times and I am sure it has been hard to associate with those who have kids. I pray that it doesn't limit your relationship with others because you truely have a lot to offer. I think when Zoe comes around you will find that sometimes that she will be all you talk about and hopefully you will find that you have more in common with women your age.
Your right, men are probably not as open to their private thoughts, so we probably talk about more superficial things. Although when Tim, Jason, Jamie and I are on the golf course we do talk an awful lot about breast feeding. (I am sorry for that comment, I have trouble staying serious for this long of time).
I will continue to pray for all of us and I do pray that the women can find a group or setting where they feel they can grow spiritually. I mean I loved the sporting activities and the social events, but I feel that I have grown a lot more spirtually because things like the Men's group or prayer sessions (I have not been to the Sunday morning sessions, but hope to be able to participate in the future) or even blogging with other Christians.
Thank you, Aaron, for your kind words.
Thanks, Kim!
I am personally ok with talking about Dora the Explorer, and stuff like that! I love kid stuff and relate more to children alot of the time than I do adults...hahaha....must be the blonde hair! ;)
I know Zoe will brighten everything when she gets here. But, please know that my days are not dark anymore. They havn't been dark since 2003! When I put God in that void in my heart where I was trying to put a baby, He fit perfectly and I have been totally satisfied ever since! Then in 2004 (August), God told me to go to China and get a baby girl. Good grief, He even gave me the name He wanted for her. It was going to be Olivia Clair but it evolved to Zoe Mei and it just sounds right.
Something I've learned through all of this is that God's timing is perfect......He doesn't do things the way we expect Him to, and He always answers our prayers. He was answering my prayers over the years by saying "Not yet" and "Not your way, but my way".
I'm very happy now, whether Zoe comes or not. ;)
It feels good to be where I am today! Boy does it ever?!
Thanks again, Kim, for caring.
Jennifer - I think it is so good for you to express your feelings and do not feel bad about the past words. I am sure that the christian ladies and sisters in Christ understood somewhat your feelings. I don't think we fully understand because we have not walked in your shoes. One thing for sure you are loved by your friends and sisters and we are praying for you, Tim and Zoe. I know you will be a happy and A God Blessed family when they lift Zoe in your arms. I am so pleased to see in your blog "I'm very happy now, whether Zoe comes or not". God is answering your prayers. We all care!
LOVE ONE ANOTHER
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